Why your photos are killing deals before they start

Transcript is auto-generated from the episode recording and lightly formatted. It may contain transcription errors.

Chris Keene (00:00): In this week's episode, we find out what made Chris say this. You did it to yourself, and you want to be pissed at everybody else? That's where I will say "Miss me with that bullshit."

Chris Keene (00:14): Here we go. Season 3, episode 6. Welcome back, folks. You have tuned in to Lot Talk powered by Lot Pop. I'm Chris Keene, one of your co-hosts, joined by the all-famous, the guru, the legend, selling Model Ts back in the day, Mr. John Anderson, and straight up from Funky Town, Fort Worth, Texas, Mr. Ronaldo Leonard. Gentlemen, good afternoon. How we doing?

John Anderson (00:38): Excellent. Excellent.

Renaldo Leonard (00:40): Fantastic. Love it. Love it.

Chris Keene (00:42): So, It's been a big It's been a good week, man. Busy. Busy. Lots of stuff popping. I've been watching a lot of things that popped up over the last week now with NADA, which I love the way that they changed the format Monday to Friday. Um A lot of really good insights have popped up over the last week, and it looks like, you know, NADA was a a pretty good educational hit this year, so which is always good. Hopefully today, viewers and listeners, you tune in pretty hard because we're going to kind of pick up where we left off, you know, last week, and we're going to touch a subject that's really near and dear to my heart. And I think we're going to kind of touch both of those today, and we actually got a guest, maybe two, depending if the other one gets freed up, but uh We're actually bringing on today some of our performance engineers, and for y'all in in the industry that may not be a Lot Pop customer, our performance engineers are very much like performance managers, but we call them engineers because, my gosh, they engineer together some really great calls. And a lot of times, viewers and listeners, you hear us talk about, you know, whether it's Ronaldo, John, or myself, on with the dealer, but we also preface it with, you know, we don't work as many accounts as our actual performance engineers do, so we thought it would be appropriate to bring a couple of ours on today to really share some of those insights that they're hearing from a large book of business that they operate, and give some tips and some things that will help as we continue to venture through 2026. John, thoughts, feedback of our topic today before we bring our guest on from you, sir.

John Anderson (02:23): I mean, it I got a little bit of a I mean, you're asking me this at the right time because I'm I just was heavily involved with one of our dealer partners on the topic that we're going to talk about with Eric. So, man, it is And if anybody if anybody looks at my LinkedIn page, you know, that one of my one of my more recent posts on there was uh from me looking at inventory online. I was just I was just randomly curious about some vehicles, so I just jumped out there like a customer and just started looking at some inventory online, just seeing what was available in the marketplace, you know, I I'm I was fishing around like customers are doing right now, you know, cuz the the uh Tahoe, you know, has 80,000 mi on it now, so I'm just kind of fishing around. So, I'm doing some I'm doing some I'm throwing my throwing my line out there, man, and I hooked a I hooked a whopper, dude. That thing had uh I can't believe that that in today's environment, it it shocked me that that I'm looking at a you know, was an older vehicle that that just was man, it was just crud, for lack of better terminology. Mhm. I mean, just photos and and yeah, I'm just you know, it it's it it's so important. And again, Chris, I know you and I had a talk yesterday, and you know, I know that I tend to I tend to uh make excuses for folks, you know, and so I started thinking about it from having put my dealer hat back on, right? And I started thinking about it. I was like, part of me was like, well, I understand, right? Cuz we're wearing all these hats in the dealership and the physical dealership, right? So, you're we're just going to miss this stuff. Well, no, you can't miss that stuff, man. And I can promise you I can promise you that that vehicle is sitting there aging and it's not getting any attention because it Man, there was just crud in the They took a close-up of the center console. There's crud in the center console. There's It was just nasty, man. And it And it's online like that. So, you know, it it's This is This topic today to me, especially right now with with the market conditions the way they are, right? Customers haven't really I We expect it in the next couple weeks, but customers really haven't started making that turn, right? And so, they're they're looking uh you know, we see you I don't I don't know you guys with the dealers you're talking with, but I know Eric's going to be able to add to this, but I see I see leads going up at a lot of dealers, so people are looking, definitely, right? But man, you just you're you're killing yourself before you get a shot. So, I'm not I don't want to I don't want to pull a rug out from our guest, man. But yeah, Chris, to your point, it's it's huge. Huge. Huge. Yep.

Chris Keene (05:04): Although, any thoughts before

Renaldo Leonard (05:06): Well, I mean, just to kind of just kind of lean into what John was speaking about there a minute ago. And then something that you brought up last week. When customers are are going online and they're looking, they're looking for an experience. And when they see a setup like that, the experience is is not not very promising. Put it that way. Back in the day, we would have said the experience is shit. But, you know, as soon as everybody will cling to the fact that what a prospect sees online of your dealership sets expectation for the entire transaction. Yes. And, you know, I was talking to a a dealer earlier this week and he says we get we get some customers that come in but the first thing they want to do is they want to cut my price. They want to ask me how much can you come off of that ride? So, I'll go in and do a site audit. You're setting yourself up for it. Cuz you got a $60,000 vehicle that looks like it's worth 30,000. So, yeah. I'm looking forward to having Eric in. Yeah, really excited about what he has to say.

Chris Keene (06:21): Well, hey, let's do this then because I want to dive into this and viewers and listeners, you know, as I tell you every single week, get your pen out, get your paper out, turn on your your note taker if you're using a digital note taker. Make sure you come back to lottalkpodcast.com to review this again, but I'm going to tell you now, merchandising is 1 million percent the biggest fail we are seeing in our industry today. So, with that being said, ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls, people of all ages, let's welcome to the stage one of our very own performance engineers hailing from the great state of Pennsylvania. He will say fly Eagles fly, Mr. Eric Gidney. Brett, let's bring Eric up on stage. Eric. Good morning, sir. How are you?

Eric Gidney (07:03): Good morning. I am wonderful. Thank you.

Renaldo Leonard (07:06): Aren't you glad I didn't do your intro there, Eric?

Eric Gidney (07:09): Listen, if there was ever a time that I I wanted Chris to introduce me, it was right now because Ronaldo, when you usually do it, I don't It doesn't It takes a lot for me to turn red. I'd be red on this camera right now if you'd have done the intro, Ronaldo. We can't take it from the top, though. We're going to start over. We can start over. It's good. We're good. We're good.

Chris Keene (07:27): Eric, you know, you kind of heard a little bit what we talked about last week and of course, like you said, you know, before we went it went live here today, you watched the podcast when you get an opportunity to and you know, last week we were starting to touch this merchandising piece and you you heard us this morning. I mean John is out there. He got his line out in the water right now fishing around for a rig. You know, he had this conversation with the dealer this morning. You've heard me say to me and times you've heard Ronaldo say to me and times you know, a $30,000 car should look like a $60,000 car not the vice versa. Okay, but to the defense of the dealer and maybe being people poor not having enough of the staff not having the right staff and having all of these different bullets whizzed by their head every single day and forgetting about because it's not in front of them at all times which is their digital dealership. There's a lot of lacking in quality merchandising out there. If you said hey this is the number one thing you could do to make an improvement immediately without having to spend a dollar, what would that be?

Eric Gidney (08:32): You know, time to market aside, right? Because when it comes to merchandising the first thing I think about is time to market because we can sit here and have the quality of images that we would be proud to hang in a museum, but if we don't have them in a timely manner, what does it matter? Right. Right. Right. So but so so time to market aside, I think the biggest thing is is what is your lasting impression, right? On how you do those photos. We we often as a dealer will will take you know, there's instances where dealers need to take more of what they do in the showroom and apply it to what they do digitally, but I think the one thing that maybe they need to get away from is just because we butterfly a car and do a feature advance presentation walk around it one way in the showroom, that's not the way to photograph the car, right? There's too many cars where you take a look at the photos. I got to wait till photo 27 before I see some of the elaborate technology that's in these cars. We're waiting way too long to get you know, Apple car play, Android auto, backup camera, satellite radio, all these features, you know, lane departure assist, collision warnings, right? My car this morning just three times on the way from driving home. Maybe I was a little late this morning after driving my driving my kid off at school. Happened to me three times from from bumping into another car. Now, I know those are things that are tougher to to photograph, but these cars have so many different safety features. Yet, we sit here and we photograph four wheels and photograph six, seven, eight, nine. We spend 90% of our time with our cars in our cars. Let's get to those photos early on.

Chris Keene (10:10): So, the photo order, what you're saying is is because we do spend the time on the inside, those hot buttons and buying motives should be the first things we're seeing, not 37 pictures of the outside of the rig.

Eric Gidney (10:23): Absolutely not. Yeah. Everything should be it's three or four on the inside. Let's get to the inside of the car. Those bells and whistles, right? You know, the different the different gauges, clusters, safety features, technology, convenience packages, things of that nature. If if you don't show it, someone else will. And I think what photo fatigue is a real thing. Photo fatigue is a real thing. And if and if if I've gone six, seven, eight photos, right? If I've clicked that forward button that many times and I haven't found what I'm looking for, no different than when I come on your lot if I don't find what I'm looking for, right? If I haven't found what I'm looking for, what I think a lot of dealers maybe take for granted is that I may be looking at you on a third-party site. And before I click one more time and one more time and one more time to find that Apple carplay or that moonroof or that panoramic roof that I'm looking for, there's a back button on the top left corner where there are 56 other of that vehicle. I can go find it somewhere else. You're not my only source.

Chris Keene (11:26): Wow. Naldo, take that.

Renaldo Leonard (11:29): Well, I I and I think that the majority of folks that I come in contact with forget that there are other options out there and how easy it is for a prospect to hit that back button and continue looking. What would be a way that we could kind of keep that in mind and what do you do with the dealers that you work for to kind of accentuate that point? How How we have to be on top of the game in this aspect because it's too easy for a prospect to just swipe left and look at the next vehicle.

Eric Gidney (12:03): You know, it's you guys were talking about the merchandising, you were talking about how the the further discount. We ultimately We ultimately may get the the connection, right? The consumer may submit the lead, they may come into our store, but then what do they want right away? They want a discount because they looked at that car with that with that center console that was filled with crumbs and trash and, you know, what have you. I When there's a problem with the check-in, there's a problem with the stay. Think about that, right? When there's a problem with the check-in, when there's a problem with the stay. So, when I to your point, when I look at those if there's there's a clear and distinct difference between listing a car online and and selling a car online. And I think that, you know, much like we line up our bumpers on our lot, we got to line up our bumpers virtually, right? We have to have the consistency, we've got to have the quality, we've got to have top-notch reconditioning. And the one thing that since you asked about my experience with the dealers that I work with, there's a there's a clear defined measure where the stores that are not able to command the premium for their inventory, it's not because they don't have the right car, it's because it's not merchandised well. I find aggressive price to markets having to compensate and justify for poor merchandising. And the one common thread that runs through stores that are able to turn inventory fast and turn it for premium dollars is their merchandising is always top-notch, every time without fail. You will not find a store that we get to work with that doesn't have top notch merchandising that also does isn't able to see lift and turn inventory fast and turn it for a deserved price point.

Chris Keene (13:30): John, premium merchandising equaling premium value. Your thoughts behind that?

John Anderson (13:36): Psychological.

Chris Keene (13:38): Unpack that.

John Anderson (13:40): And then I got a question for Eric. I'm going to open up a can of I'm going to open up the can a little bit. Because I know that I know there's a I know there's a different thought process out there in the marketplace about what I'm going to ask, but back to the psychological, right? Why do you You know, we had the Coffee With Cars guys on, right? Last year, right? And Yeah, Fred and Sweet Lou. Yeah, Fred and Sweet Lou. And and you you know, remember what remember one of the stats that they read out that we were all shocked by that the average customer spending 19 hours now? Uh Right, remember that? That was them, right? That that said that if I remember correctly, right? That the average customer spending 19 hours and I'm I'm thinking it's I'm thinking it's going down, right? We We It was 16 hours for the longest time and I'm thinking with all the technology out there now, surely it's going down and all of a sudden they bring that out and I'm like, "Whoa, it's going the other direction, right?" And so, you know, I think about customer again, myself looking at, you know, vehicles as a as a resale customer cuz I no longer I'm in a dealership. So, when you're spending that kind of time online, what do you what are you What are customers doing when they're looking at, you know, Eric brought up, you know, serving up those high visibility and and high demand options that we want to see, right? Earlier on in the process cuz you know, these things right here uh these things right here are giving us all the attention span of a gnat, right? Cuz I can I can find anything I want. I can find anything I want in 30 seconds, right? You know, you can have somebody online you can have somebody on a which I've done. I've sitting there with a dealer and you know, you get that feeling in the in the in your side that man, this sounds like there's some bullshit coming out of this conversation. And so I can get on I can get on my phone and find out I can Google anything and find out is is what I'm thinking accurate, right? Is is this it am I getting fed a line here? So my point to the psychological is customers I would think I do that I do it. I'm physically putting myself in that vehicle. I'm physically I'm not meant physically. I'm mentally putting myself in it. When I get to the dealership, I'm physically doing it. But when I'm online, I'm mentally putting myself in that in that vehicle. That's That's why I feel like they're spending so much time is they're they're looking at all those things to try to mentally build focus and and to you guys point, right? I build this picture in my mind or I I push away, right? I it if a lot of times they're just losing customers. They're not coming to the store, right? But that customer that comes to the store and wants that discount, that's what happens when the when I'm building a a mental psychological picture. I get to the store and what I built up in my mind doesn't match what I what happens at the store, right? And so then I either turn around and leave or I'm asking for I'm asking for a discount. So to me I think what Eric's talking about is exactly what the customer's looking for is they want to they want to see those things that I'm going to I'm going to experience every day cuz I want to try to build a picture of me owning this vehicle from a psychological standpoint. And then Eric I'm sorry. Go ahead. No, no, no, no, no. Go ahead. Go ahead. Go ahead, John. Eric, I want I want to hear your thoughts on that of that psychological side and also want to ask you this question. The thumbnail photo, what side is the money shot? Which which which way should we be facing the the vehicle, Eric?

Eric Gidney (17:23): My goodness. Well, you know, there's an answer for that that was a few years ago, right? Because if you remember, most of your third-party sites had the thumbnail. Because we read left to right, you'd have you'd have that shot of the thumbnail being on the left and then the verbiage would be to the right. And so, you wanted to have that car point to the right. But, your third-party sites don't do that anymore, right?

John Anderson (17:48): Wait a minute. Hold on a second. I I I must stop you there for a second cuz you're right. Cuz I had the reason why I brought this up is cuz I was having this discussion just the other day with a dealer, and I got I pulled open uh one of the third-party sites, and it was stacked above or it stacked below, so that wasn't. But, when I hit that when I pulled when I popped open that vehicle, right? And I went to that when I actually popped open that vehicle and clicked on that thumbnail to go in there, then it then it organized itself and it was that way. So, do you think So, that it's not from that perspective it's not as important as it used to be because just like in my case, I already popped into that vehicle, so I had to go to that vehicle to see it Yeah. when it arranges itself left to right.

Eric Gidney (18:28): more importantly than that first shot, I I think the more important photo is the last shot.

John Anderson (18:34): Okay. All right, cool. Expand on that.

Eric Gidney (18:37): Well, the reason why I say that and and I I'm not going to name names, but I remember when I was still on the floor of the dealership, and um we had kind of a unique setup in our showroom. You couldn't walk into the middle of the building. You had to walk in from either the left side or the right side. The left side was more service, and the right side was more where the sales customers were. And our used car lot and our new car lot was off to that side. So, naturally all the desks in the showroom pointed out to the lot. So, when we were sitting at our desks, we could watch that lot. Well, my general manager came in one day, and my desk was facing the other way, John. The reason why my desk was facing the other way is cuz I didn't need to watch the lot like a hawk. I knew what was going on. Hell, I spent most of my days on the lot anyway. What I wanted was when after I came back from that test drive and I did everything else right, I wanted that customer sitting at my desk not looking at the rest of the showroom and the guys behind me on my team, I wanted them sitting at my desk looking at the car that we just test drove. And my general manager is like, "What are you doing? Why is your desk facing the same way?" I'm like, "It don't matter where I face. It matters where the customer faces. I want them looking at that car the whole time they're sitting at my desk." And then I go online and what do I see as the last photo of some of these cars? Keys. Keys, wheels, trunks, VIN numbers. VIN numbers. Stop. The over the overhead console here. That's your lasting impression. I'm going to go back and hit the back button and look at 48 other cars and this is your last This is my last memory that I have of yours is that overhead console. No.

Chris Keene (20:05): But I want to back up just a smidgen here to that direction, John, that you were talking about, left to right, right to left. The psychological that you brought up a minute ago. This is an SRP, as we all know. Here's the results to the search I put in. This vehicle is telling me go back and go look for something else. This vehicle is making me go and now look at the vehicle and taking me naturally to the call to action specific to the dealership. So, for the the listeners on the call, if you have your very first photo left to right or you're looking at the vehicle in that thumbnail, that very first photo, as the passenger side angled back to the call to action pieces in the VDP, you improve your odds of that customer moving to the next stages and staying isolated on your vehicle. That's to John's point.

John Anderson (21:08): Well, that's what I wanted to hear from Eric and to your point, Chris, because I know there's a lot of disagreement out there and as a matter of fact, I know of one huge uh influencer influencer that that says that the money shot uh is the opposite side. Um so, you know, again, I don't want to get I don't want to get wrapped up on it a bunch on this call, but I but you know, to to your point, Chris, uh and that view that you're showing right now, yes, to me, that's what I that's the flow I want as so that vehicle pointing towards those calls to action. Now, to Eric's point, though, again, we are trying to emulate in the virtual dealership what we do in the brick-and-mortar dealership. To Eric's point, you get back from the test drive and you have the customer pull it up on the sold row, does the customer look at that or as they exit the vehicle, do they look at the back end of it or when they exit the vehicle, you're leading them into the dealership to get driver's license, insurance, write it up and get this customer F&I? Do they turn back around and now see that, which is the driver side, the truck's pulled up on sold row, and they turn back around and see the vehicle? That's that lasting impression that Eric has been emphatic about and I 100% agree with that we have got to show this customer exactly what it would look like when they were at the brick-and-mortar going to that next step writing it up. Naldo, your thought.

Renaldo Leonard (22:39): No, I mean, I'm one of You know me. I'm If you like it, I love it. And if we are all on the same page, I But that's It amazes me how we get so confused and we get so many different views on how to properly execute it, but the shortcuts will kill you every single time. And that is that's a shortcut. Not thinking it all the way through, you know, Eric went through how he positioned himself on the showroom floor. I mean, that takes some thought, right? Everybody else is going to come in and you know, this is the way that we're going. But when you logically think it through, take the car guy hat off, look at it from a consumer's point of view, then it makes sense and everybody falls in line and says, "Well, maybe I should consider doing this." So, and I was taking a second. You were at Lot Art Trader. I went into Amazon Autos and I mean, there's a menagerie of things going on there. But when my mind sees that we've got some directional marketing in place with some of those vehicles, those are the ones that pop out to me most. So, there is a lot of psychology that goes into it, but when you boil it all down, there's a lot of common sense, too. And I realize common sense isn't as common as it used to be, but uh hopefully we can get back to that.

Eric Gidney (24:02): If if you wouldn't take and maybe this won't resonate with all with all the listeners and all the viewers, right? Cuz not not everybody's like us that used to etch deals into stone tablets to present to our buyers, right? No, that was just John. That was just John. That wasn't me. Right, right, right. Okay, but but if you wouldn't

Chris Keene (24:20): Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, get it back up. Got to back up. The car and the vehicle or the the Model T was sold before you even got to the desk.

Eric Gidney (24:29): Yeah, yeah. That was the details, right? So, the tablet, putting it in stone, it really didn't matter all that much. But the four of us have been around enough that we used to put cars in the newspaper. If you wouldn't take your photos of the car that you have online right now and take out a full page ad like we used to do back in the day in that used car section of that newspaper, then don't put it online. If the photos you have online aren't good enough that you would have put them in print and paid all that money on your Sunday edition, why would you why would you do it on the dot com?

Chris Keene (25:02): Pretty valid, but take it a step farther, Eric. Wouldn't that go the same as if you wouldn't pull that vehicle up on the front line facing the entry to your dealership, why would you put it online that way? So, you and you and John both said something that caught my attention. And I love the analogy that you used uh about like maybe a hotel. Yeah. If there's a problem with the check-in, there's going to be a problem with the stay. And then John, you talked about that experience that the consumer is receiving in your digital dealership, which those two tie together, which leads me to this thought. And again, Eric, you get to work more with the dealers on an everyday basis. Usually, your schedule is jam-packed in AM to 6:00 p.m. But with that being said, problem with the check-in, problem with the stay. I love that. And then John, you talking about that experience, is it safe to say that if we provide premium merchandising, we provide a great check-in, meaning when they first land on your rig, that that experience and that premium merchandising, won't that lead to premium dollars?

Eric Gidney (26:18): For sure. Absolutely. Yeah, 100%. For sure.

Chris Keene (26:24): So, think about this for a minute. You you're going on vacation, and maybe you've got a couple stops along the way you're driving, and one of the stops is an overnight stay. Are you going to pay more money to maybe stay at a Hilton Garden Inn than at a Super 8 sitting at the local truck stop?

John Anderson (26:42): Without a doubt.

Chris Keene (26:44): So, why would consumers do anything different when it comes to spending 30, 40, 50, 60,000 dollars with an automobile? Wouldn't they pay for a better experience? I mean, John, you know, when you was living down in you know, DFW rolling with the South Loop South Lake folk and y'all were going to supper, you know, I mean, wouldn't y'all go pay top dollar for a top experience?

John Anderson (27:08): I think that's your I think you guys are making a solid point here. I you know, I think I don't know about you all, but if I I don't do it so much where I'm at now because of everything's 45 minutes away from me, but but when I was down in when I was down in DFW, Chris, a lot of times what I would do in that very thing, you know, from a dinner perspective, right? I'm I'm big on maybe I'm not like everybody. Maybe I'm unique, but I'm big on getting online and looking at and reading reviews, right? Before I go spend my money anywhere, right? I'm the my money. Look, I work hard for my money and and and you know, I'm I'm before I just spend it and give it away, I want to I want to know that, you know, I'm going to get the experience you guys are talking about. And so, right. And so, I Yeah, I think, you know, I'm sitting here thinking while everyone's talking and it's even it's going through my mind even more, man, even how much more this is important this topic because I don't have a you know, when a customer when a customer physically drives on my lot, the control factor goes up exponentially, right? I look, I can get I can get them I can get someone out there, you know, I I can, you know, I I can remember the days of routing your lot to where there was only one way in and one way out because you wanted to be able to, you know, that you you want to reduce those drive-bys, right? I can remember all that stuff we used to do, right? And so, my point being is if it if a customer well, I you guys can you guys can comment on this, but I I believe nowadays if a customer gets in their vehicle and physically comes to your lot, they're coming to buy. They they've spent all that time. They're not going to darken your door if their intention is not to to buy a vehicle, right? And so, at that point you have you one, you know they're there. Two, you can get somebody you can talk to them. You can have somebody talk to them. From a manager's experience, I can greet them at the door. I can introduce myself. I can walk out on the lot. There's all these things that I can do to have some control over the situation. When they're coming to my website, I don't know what control do I have, right? Whether they come and stay or they leave. They come in and they leave or they You know, what things what things am I and I and this this is what I really want to hear from from Eric. I want him to comment on. What things what things can we do with our website that will when a customer visits my site, they stay longer. Because if they stay longer, no different than your physical lot, right? Customer stays longer, the opportunities the opportunities improve. The opportunities increase, right? So, what are some and Eric mentioned some of those things early on, but I want to I want him to dive into that a little bit more from a perspective of Chris, you were just on Autotrader, right? And then you started clicking on the actual VDP on that truck and showing that showing that truck. And so, if I if I let's start there. I get a customer that's they go on third party, they're scanning through, and then they click on my vehicle and they come they come they come to my website. So, they've interested. Now, stop right there. They're at my website. How do I What are some things Eric that that First of all, what how should they find it? And then what keeps them there longer? And I'm I'm playing this all the way out, right? If if if we I'm thinking about all the data. So, if we believe the data that percent of the customers still don't buy the first vehicle that they they land on, right? If we believe that the let's say let's let's let's abandon the 80%. The higher percent of the customers still don't buy the first car that they start looking at, right? But if I get them to my place of business, my virtual place of business, and I and I can and they're happy, then they stay longer, and then instead of going hitting that back button like you alluded to earlier, now they go back up into my website and look at my other used inventory, or maybe they look at my new inventory. What kinds of things do I need to do as a dealer to have that have that happen, right? Because ultimately ultimately that's where it's that's where it starts to happen. That's where a call's made, and then I got an opportunity to set an appointment, right? Instead of them just coming in and then they bounce, right? So.

Eric Gidney (31:09): You know, I I think one of the first things you have to do is you have to remove the obstacles that we as dealers put in the way to keep them there. Bounce rates are high because we have we have chat tools that come on, we've got pop-up boxes that come on, we've got coupons, $500 off for the test drive. We got to I went on one the other day, it was a mobile site, I couldn't even find the page again, right? Yeah, I couldn't even find There were so many things that popped up, I couldn't even find my way back to the This dealer had two different chat tools. Why? And then oh, and then better off, you you X out of it, and then you're like, oh, here's the car, and then you click the car, and it starts all over again. All the pop-up boxes and the chat tools and all that help. So, we you know, we end up getting in our own way, right? The car The car is the star, and I would keep that in mind.

Chris Keene (32:00): Repeat that, Eric. Please repeat that.

Eric Gidney (32:03): car is the star. The car is the star, right? I'm there for the car. I'm not there for the $500 test drive coupon. I'm not there because of you know, the I you got me. Now, just keep me. Now, this could be a little bit controversial, but if I if I was a store right now on my SRPs, on my page, I wouldn't have CTAs. I personally would not have CTAs. To me, that's the equivalent of me coming out and greeting you on the lot and going, "Hey, do you want payments? Hey, do you want to know what your car's worth? Hey, do you want to Like, they haven't actually landed cuz remember, when they come to the store, what do we always What do we always tell our guys, right? You got to land them on a car. You got to land them on a car. Cuz if you don't land them on a car, nothing else happens yet. We can't go on a test drive. We can't work the numbers. All those ever important steps that haven't really changed in all our years in the car business, none of those things change. It's not me Greg presenting numbers. But yet on our SRPs, it is. We go on an SRP and there's seven CTAs and it's This one's green, that one's white, that one's blue, that one's red and they're all these different shapes. Car's the star, big thumbnail photo, information about the car, click it. Now they've landed on the car. Now you want to throw some CTAs, throw some CTAs. You want to schedule that test drive? I'm telling you, nobody's filling out a credit app because they saw a thumbnail in an SRP. They got to go into the car. They got to go into the car. They got to see the video. They got to read the description, right? They got to do all this Then they might fill out that finance app. Then they might do your payment calculator. Then they might hit that button that says schedule your test drive or what's my trade worth. There's not going to be 25 cars on an SRP. I'm going to see a thumbnail and go, "Hey, yeah, go run a hard bureau on me." No, it's not going to happen. So, clear the clutter, I think is the most important thing. Let the car be the star. That's the reason why they're there, right? Make sure you obviously, as we talked about, inject that emotion into the photos. You show the things that are important and then your CTAs are going to work. The other thing that's always surprising to me too is that a lot of dealers won't have a way for me to ask a question. Most disappointing. When I go to a website and I can schedule a test drive, I can fill out a finance app, but what if I have a question? I would encourage having a CTA that's an ask a question. Cuz the number one thing that I hear from dealers, especially when I get to work with their sales teams, is all we want to create engagement. Well, isn't engagement a series of questions and answers that evolve then into an opportunity and then it evolve into an appointment and then a show and then a sale. So, a A folks aren't ready to schedule the test drive. They're not ready to fill out a finance app or or do a digital retailing because they still have a question. But yet, we don't make it easy for them to do that. I'm a big believer there's only four reasons why someone hits our website. Schedule service, buy a car, maybe sell or trade their car, and to ask us a question. Then there's some vendors that want to hit your staff page and call you and try and sell you something. But outside of those four reasons, that's the only I think that's why somebody's there. So, let's let's make it easy for them to ask a question. Now, let's get back to customer focus in our processes, not process focused that alienates customers.

John Anderson (35:05): Boy, That's a great point. That's great stuff right there, man. Yeah, it is.

Renaldo Leonard (35:11): But Eric, I see from a dealer's standpoint, and we talked about having, you know, the chat boxes pop up, how they interpret that chat opportunity there on the website as an opportunity for someone to ask questions. How does that miss the boat compared to what you'd rather see?

Eric Gidney (35:29): I mean, one way is that it misses the boat is a lot of times there is still some latency. For sure, that chat Watch how many times a chat box pops up within 2 seconds of you landing on a website, and then engage with it, and see how long it takes for somebody to respond. They're not They're not the same. The durations are completely different. Secondly, having worked in my in my past for a live chat company, you're typically engaging with somebody whose feet are not in that showroom at that time. So, even if I did ask a question, they then have to take that question, push it back to somebody that's in leadership at the dealership, wait for their response, and then have that come back to that chat person, to then serve it up to them. Whether that's availability, what's my trade worth, you know, do you think you can get me bought, whatever it may be, and right there we're just we're just we're just making them wait. They're not going to wait for that answer. So, if it's live operator, and if it's somebody within the dealership that's enabled and empowered to take care of that customer, then I'm all for it. But if you're outsourcing that and there's going to be latency and, you know, along with those delays, there's not going to be a really true accurate picture, then I think you're wasting the customer's time.

Chris Keene (36:35): So, to that point, you know, and Brett put something our our COO and producer, he put something, you know, in our chat as he's backstage moderating and making sure that we don't go off the rails too bad, but we're Brett, we're going to go off the rails. He put something in there that, you know, John, you commented on and being point and I echo that sentiment. And for the viewers and listeners, you have to understand something. Our COO, our producer of this podcast, is not from the retail car business. The most he's ever been exposed to the car business is when he went and bought a car and the operational things he does for our company here at LotPop. But he said, be the Apple store of websites. Clean, clear pricing, no BS. No one's using a coupon to buy a car in 2025. Apple sells the same products for premium and still win the game year over year and minimal things change when it comes to advertising. They sold their brand in a global market. Dealers, you don't have to worry about a global market. You're worried about your PMA, your DMA, your national standpoint, but more importantly, your PMA. So, are you selling your brand as a dealership or to Eric's point, and I pulled something up, and I want to share it for the viewers, but the listeners, I'm going to jump back on what he talked about. And what he talked about was is all the CTAs on an SRP. This is an SRP page that took a screenshot of of a dealership. The car is not the star here. Eric, how does this make you cringe and why?

Eric Gidney (38:13): It it it it it's back to emulating the the things that we've done successfully. When we've done them, we've done them successfully in the dealership within our showroom for years, which again is you have to land the people on the car. Right? And here one, we haven't landed them on the car, but yet we're you know, we've we're customizing payment and value your trade. You know, there's value to those tools, but let's let let's get the emotion back, right? I'd rather see a larger photo. I don't need four across. I would have three across in my thumbnails. I'd have three across. I would reclaim that real estate. A larger thumbnail photo, clear the clutter, right? These are just four cars jammed up in a row on my used car lot. Hell, they're not even on my used car lot. They're in the third row, and they're just forgotten, right? Let's get them back on the apron. Let's at least get them on the end cap, right? So that more people can see it. We've got all those other distractions on there. Let them land on Let them land on the car. There's better ways to utilize that real estate. Again, I'm not going to click on that Corvette right there or or or I'm sorry, get to this page and go, "Yep, that white Corvette, that's the one for me. Let me give Capital One my my credit information." No, it's not going to happen. Do you see it happening?

Chris Keene (39:35): No, and for the the viewer or excuse me, the listeners, again, I want to make sure this is crystal clear to the listeners. What I've got on the screen is an SRP page from a a dealership. So, I'm at the dealership's website. And on the dealership's website, which if you guys remember correctly, that's where you're trying to drive the consumer to because it's a more controlled environment. Back to what John was talking about, you know, what are some things we could do in the digital dealership to emulate the brick-and-mortar dealership to maintain control of that consumer at our digital dealership. But to Eric's point, because what I'm showing on the screen here are four vehicles and a arguably a fourth of the strip is the vehicle or maybe even a third, but the rest of it is we're trying to squeeze all in here, click this button for a 360 walk around, click this button for the JD Power retail value, click this button for the vehicle records from iPacket, click this button for the Carfax, click this button to get today's price. Well, what's wrong with the 25781 price that you got on there? Click this button to explore payments, click this button to confirm availability, click this button to value your trade, click this button to estimate your payment, and click this button to value your trade. Yes, listeners, I just rattled off 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 CTAs purely based upon a thumbnail photo and I have no idea if this vehicle has the feature advantage benefit that I'm looking for that is does it have the safety, the performance, appearance, comfort, economy, dependability factors that I'm looking for as the consumer? Complete nonsense and bullshit on this page because the car is not the star here. This right here, you wonder why margin compression is a thing? Because you compressed your own margins. Why? Because the vehicle is not the star here. What the star is is all these other places that you're trying to get the customer to click to and get their information and you haven't even earned the right yet to ask for their information.

John Anderson (41:45): Amen. Amen.

Chris Keene (41:48): And and you know John, I mean John, this is the shit we're talking about when dealers are pissed about, "Well, my margin sucks. The market is compressing." I was listening to this talking head talk about how, "Hey, we we are seeing this margin compression." Well, guess what? 50% of the margin compression, John, is because the dealer hasn't earned the right to ask what the market value of vehicle. John am I right or wrong?

John Anderson (42:16): I'm looking for my hammer man. Chris is dropping a hammer. I was going to I was going to I was going to bring my hammer on camera. Chris is Chris is fired up baby come on preach. No, you're right. You're right Chris. I was trying to be I was trying to be honest with my assessment of this page and quite honestly I probably would you know I try to be I try to be fair in my assessment and quite honestly I would probably um click away cuz it's just it's it's it's jammed with I mean to your point right your eyes don't your eyes don't go to the car they go to all that other stuff right and you didn't even with everything you brought up you didn't even bring up the young lady down there asking me if I've if I've test drove a vehicle I absolutely should right so you didn't even bring her up she's she's buried beneath all that stuff right so Hey yeah those piss me off.

Eric Gidney (43:05): If I can pour a little bit more salt into this wound now too right? This is a dealer I'm I'm not making any money my margins are compressed but yet our top line CTA there is get today's price. We've already made price the object. Yep. I've said this before. I've said this before. If we make the price the object don't be surprised if the price becomes the objection and we're already making price the object.

Chris Keene (43:33): I love it.

John Anderson (43:35): Well can I can I add to just add our industry guys why are we Look why why would we want why are we so surprised that a customer comes into our store and ask for a discount on a car? Why is that surprise us? I mean we've we've done that.

Eric Gidney (43:52): we made price the object.

John Anderson (43:55): We've done that for years we've done that for years right and so to to Eric's point we don't need any help we don't need to help ourselves with that by calling it out on the calling it out on the very first page. That the first thing I'm going to go is wait a minute. Why are you offering me today's price is is do I not have an accurate price here, right? Are you Right? We we we are we God bless us, man, but we are our own worst enemies in this industry, man. We just we are our own worst enemies. You know, we people people still say they'd rather go get their teeth pulled than come to a car dealership or visit an attorney. And then we make we do stuff like that and we just make it harder on ourselves because we're just we're just confirming their thought process. Well, that's all we're doing. We're just confirming

Chris Keene (44:42): we we we blame we blame all the inventory management tools. We blame all all the different resources and tools that are out there of why we have compressed margins, why our volume is off cuz a newsflash for you folks, you can run volume and gross simultaneously. But if you sit there and to Eric's point, if we make price the object, it then becomes the objection, which then leads to the margin compression. You did it to yourself and you want to be pissed at everybody else. That's where I will say miss me with that bullshit.

Eric Gidney (45:14): And if I could add one more news coming. And you know, this is probably more ironic for for me than for the rest of you fellows cuz as you know, I do a lot of mystery shopping uh for our stores and But but I will tell you I will bet you to steal a Chris Keene line, I will bet you dollars to donuts that if you hit that button that said get today's price and you submitted that lead, 3 days from now you would get today's price. You won't even get it today. I guarantee you you will not I cuz I've done it, gentlemen, I've done it. I have hit the button that says get today's price and 3 days from now I will get Friday's price, but it'll be Sunday.

John Anderson (45:55): Hey Eric, I'm glad you went there because I was going to ask you a little bit cuz I know you do that on a regular basis. And if with the with a little bit of time we have left, and Chris, sorry, I didn't mean to cut you off, but I No, you're fine. Go. Speak to that somewhat of what what your experience is like on that cuz I really think, you know, we have a you know, I look at the data of folks that that, you know, watch this podcast and and, you know, we have a lot of at least it says that we have a lot of folks from OEMs that watch. You have, you know, a lot of dealers that watch. And so, I think it's important for I'm glad you brought that up cuz I wanted to I wanted you to address that a little bit of what what your overall experience is like with that because again, we're talking about one And And here's the other thing I want to add to this. Data Data that I've that I've come across recently tells me that the average dealership the average dealer spends $250 per lead to get them to their store, right? And so, think about all the merchandising and and money we're spending out there to try to attract customers to our our virtual lot. And then uh what we've already talked about and addressed today that would cause a customer to just veer away from us. But then once we capture that customer and then they send us a lead, talk to us a little bit about what your experience is there.

Eric Gidney (47:14): You know, the biggest thing that I notice and and to sort of circle back to what I said a few minutes ago, it it does seem to be too process-focused and not enough customer-focused. It's really alarming how many times I'll submit a lead and I'll ask a simple question. Guys, it'll be, you know, does it have a tow hitch or, you know, can you tell me what the ownership history is? Not, you know, I'm not trying to I never try and turn it into a gotcha moment. It's not about that. It's about the the the coaching that we can provide through what we learn from it. And you'll submit a lead and no exaggeration, 85-90% of the time, the question doesn't even get answered. It just gets missed. It gets missed and and I cringe cuz I think about, you know, again sort of copying or mirroring that experience to what I would, you know, what would that look like in the showroom? Like can you imagine if I stood in the showroom and I was like, "Hey, can you show me the Carfax on that car?" And them going, "Hey, want to go for a test drive?" Like if one of my sales people did that, I would send them home for the day. Hell, I might make them go pee in a cup and take a drug test if they did something like that, right? But yeah, we get away with it or not get away with it but they but but they do it all the time digital on their digital lots. And then they're surprised when they can't convert, when they can't convert that lead to an appointment to a show to a sale, right? So that's one of the biggest things and then, you know, I I guess it's maybe it's not arguable I guess I saw a recent stat I believe it was Cox Automotive that the typical used car buyer right now is submitting 12 used car leads. I believe that's what I saw it was 12. And I I can't imagine that that's 12 at once, guys, right? I think that's the one distinguishable thing that I I that makes that I think when I hear that number I don't think that it's somebody going, "Okay, honey, we need to buy a car." and then they submit 12 leads that night. That seems a bit excessive. That number is so high because the people aren't finding what they're looking for. And sometimes it's not that they're not finding the car, they're just not finding the store, the dealership, the salesperson, service, right? The place that they want to give their business to. That number's not I'm submitting 12 leads tonight. That's I'm submitting 12 leads in my journey. And that journey, by the way, has gotten longer and longer and longer. Mhm. So the number one thing that I notice is that right away, without fail, every store, when I mystery shop them, asked me for a test drive. They asked me for a test drive. They haven't even earned the right. They haven't even earned the right, especially if they missed the question. And, you know, the way that I I sort of spin that back is don't ask for the test drive, earn the test drive, right? We We We as dealers, you know, dealers will their teams will They try and use the test drive to create the engagement. Frankly, guys, it's supposed to be the other way around. The engagement's supposed to create the test drive. Listen, I'm not going to ignore somebody that's that's got every buying signal in the world, right? But I'll bet you it's less than 5% of people that actually respond to that initial inquiry response from a dealer that says, "Hey, when do you want to come in?" And they go, "Well, damn, I thought you'd never ask." And they schedule right away. That's not real world. That's not real It's just simply not. It's not. So, what we need to do is we need to step back and go, "What do I need to do? How do I meet this person where they are in their journey?" Still do that needs analysis. They may have landed themselves on the car. That doesn't mean that that's the right car for them. And if you really want to be keyly different from the other 11 places that they that the sibling leads to, just be customer focused, not process focused. That's the difference. There's no silver bullet. It's no different than when they come onto our lot. It wouldn't be meet, greet, present numbers, what it fellas. It wouldn't. But yet, it's somehow it's get lead, ask for test drive right away. And I I do I truly believe that consumers today are blocking that white noise, that clutter out. Yes. And the folks that are that are the folks that are the dealerships that are delivering a concierge type high-level customer focused experience right from the get-go are the ones that are earning the right to to not only actually even ask for the test drive. The way that I challenge my dealers and and the folks that I get to work with and train is put yourself in position where they're practically begging you when they can come in, not the other way around. So, those are sort of like my biggest takeaways with with that is is we just fall right away to asking for the test drive. And it's just way too prematurely soon.

Renaldo Leonard (51:33): Yeah. Well, and I think that sales people take the wrong message when they go to their website. We show a picture, ask for a credit app. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We've got everything out of order. Yeah. And and we're reinforcing reinforcing poor execution all the way through the process.

Chris Keene (51:52): Spot on. That is spot on. So, we're getting the hook from Brett, but I wanted to share two statistics because I looked them up and John, back to one of the stats you were talking about, but also I pulled a new car here as well. I'm going to share these two two statistics. So, listeners, viewers, make sure you get your pen and paper out because Eric dropped some bombs today. I'm going to recap a few of those after I share this. 75% of used car shoppers are switching brands. 75%. The question asked was, do used automobile shoppers buy the original brand of vehicle they initially start looking for? No. 75% of them don't. New car, declining loyalty. First half of 2025, brand loyalty fell to 51.1%, which means 49% of them ended up buying something different than what they originally. If they were Ford buyers, they ended up buying Chevrolet. Chevrolet bought Toyota. Toyota bought Nissan. Whatever the case. So, to Eric's point of what he was driving today, to recap and to bring in what John was talking about of maintaining the control of the consumer throughout your digital dealership. Lasting impressions of your photos. Are your photos lasting impressions? Are they quality to where you would want to hang those in a museum? Problem with the check-in, you're going to have a problem with the stay. So, when they check in to your dealership, are they getting a quality experience? If you make the price the object, count on it becoming the objection later on. Response to your lead submissions, are you more templated? Are you trying to follow a process? Are you truly meeting the customer where they're at and are your responses driven to fulfill the customer's needs? Last thing I'm going to leave with, and this is a exercise that I've emphatically shared with dealers and I 100% viewers and listeners. If you want to start finding out where some of your margin challenges are, go in to your last 15 deals. And measure what the contract price was against what your advertised price was. If you're seeing gaping discounts in there or consistent discounts in there, now you can isolate to that sales manager, you can isolate to that salesperson. Now we could coach up on how to defend the value. But, to Eric's point, go look at your merchandising. Are you making that an objection? Are you inviting those discounts? Because if you're inviting them, it makes it real hard to defend the value of your vehicles. Second part, go measure your trade allowance against your ACVs. Once again, do you know how to defend got 53 widgets on your damn site that's giving them the value before they even show up? Do you know how to defend that? And you being the dealership as a whole, and if you have contributors inside your dealership that are over allowing against that ACV more than they are defending the ACV of that vehicle, there's where your gross is going. So, I hope you guys took a lot of notes. And if you missed something because we might have went all over the map on you for a second or you tuned me out when I went on my rant page here. Go back to lottalkpodcast.com. You will find this episode there with Eric throwing some bombs down on the merchandising, on the secret shoppers, on lead management of just when you first get the dang lead. Eric, John, Ronaldo, myself, we thank you for taking the time and sharing some of that wealth of knowledge that you have, man. It It means a lot. It means a lot to our dealers. Whether they want to admit it or not.

Eric Gidney (55:30): to answer to it. Appreciate it.

Chris Keene (55:33): Yes, thank you a ton, Eric. John, 30 seconds, anything to close?

John Anderson (55:38): Yeah, if you ask me a question, I'm sorry. If I ask you a question and you don't respond to my question, I'm out. Simple as that. I'm out. Be simple. I mean, we see that to second Eric's point to that. That's a huge thing. I'm glad he brought it up cuz when we dig into CRMs, we find that all the time where there was a question asked and it wasn't answered. Mhm. If I look if I if I'm asking you a question, you don't answer it, you you in essence you've silently answered my question. They don't want to talk to me. They don't want to do business with me.

Chris Keene (56:06): I'm so glad you said that. Yeah, that's that's good stuff there. Naldo, 30-seconds.

Renaldo Leonard (56:12): You know my 30-seconds normally turns out to be 2 minutes, but everything that Eric brings to the table is eye-opening and reflective because there are simple steps to executing this process properly. And everybody has a tendency to miss a step here and there. That's why I always introduce him on calls with my dealers as the lovely and talented Eric Gidney. Often imitated, never duplicated because he brings the factual data, puts it right there in front of a dealer, and explains the steps that are missing. Mhm. No, that's spot on. That's definitely spot on. And I was just going to say if you if you had an opportunity to listen, go back. Listen to it because every single nugget is valuable and could could definitely make a difference on impacting how your team is handling that process. And if you know of someone who's in the business who hadn't had an opportunity to listen to it, send them the link because Eric provides pure gold with everybody he visits with. I'll give you a cell phone number. Give him a call. He'll be glad to help you out.

Chris Keene (57:14): Absolutely. There we go. There we go. Well, on behalf of LotPop, our entire LotPop family, Mr. Anderson, Mr. Leonard, and Mr. Eric Gidney, we thank you folks for tuning in. We will catch you same bat time, same bat channel next week. On that, we out, guys. Success. Rock them.